Flint Particle System Forum - 2017-02-03T19:31:26+00:00 http://flintparticles.org/forum/ Lussumo Vanilla & Feed Publisher Forum Archived http://flintparticles.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=625&Focus=2105#Comment_2105 2014-01-27T08:42:02+00:00 2017-02-03T19:31:26+00:00 Richard http://flintparticles.org/forum/account.php?u=1 Since Flint is no longer actively developed this forum is now archived. All the posts remain, but no new posts are being accepted. Sorry if you have a question, but judging by recent lack of activity ...
Richard]]>
simple 3d spark effect http://flintparticles.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=624&Focus=2104#Comment_2104 2014-01-16T10:13:36+00:00 2017-02-03T19:31:26+00:00 mr_user http://flintparticles.org/forum/account.php?u=706 Hello! I want to create a short spark effect after the collision of two objects. So I use Away3D 4 with flash builder, I have a plane as mesh and two balls rolling over it. The question is what ... I want to create a short spark effect after the collision of two objects. So I use Away3D 4 with flash builder, I have a plane as mesh and two balls rolling over it.
The question is what should i do to make it appear at different places of my 3d stage.
thanks)]]>
Snow Pile up http://flintparticles.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=610&Focus=2090#Comment_2090 2013-12-06T12:20:38+00:00 2017-02-03T19:31:26+00:00 bolaoch8 http://flintparticles.org/forum/account.php?u=704 Hi there! I'm creating a snow falling effect with the Flint twoD classes. Everything works fine, but I need the snow to pile up on some objects of the stage. For this purpose I've put a LineZone ...
I'm creating a snow falling effect with the Flint twoD classes. Everything works fine, but I need the snow to pile up on some objects of the stage. For this purpose I've put a LineZone and defined it as a CollisionZone. The snow particles get stuck there but, as far as I can see, they don't pile up one on each other. Is there some way to achieve this? One more thing, I first tried to use a Emitter3D, but couldn't find how to define CollisionZones with the threeD classes, is it possible to do that someway?

Thanks for your help!]]>
BitmapDataZone for 3d space http://flintparticles.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=604&Focus=2089#Comment_2089 2013-12-01T05:17:30+00:00 2017-02-03T19:31:26+00:00 lumenbeing http://flintparticles.org/forum/account.php?u=703 I get this when I try to run your code: 1067: Implicit coercion of a value of type Logo to an unrelated type flash.display:MovieClip. 1067: Implicit coercion of a value of type Logo to an unrelated type flash.display:MovieClip.]]> Bird's Eye View Snowfall http://flintparticles.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=84&Focus=2088#Comment_2088 2013-12-01T04:42:52+00:00 2017-02-03T19:31:26+00:00 lumenbeing http://flintparticles.org/forum/account.php?u=703 Richard can you please give me the updated code for this? Now that Point3D is gone from the library, I can't make this work. Bird's Eye View Snowfall http://flintparticles.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=84&Focus=2087#Comment_2087 2013-11-30T01:03:32+00:00 2017-02-03T19:31:26+00:00 lumenbeing http://flintparticles.org/forum/account.php?u=703 I tried putting brackets around the 3 like in the 2d example code, but now I get a new error, ReferenceError: Error #1065: Variable Point3D is not defined. at Snowfall_fla::MainTimeline/frame1()
ReferenceError: Error #1065: Variable Point3D is not defined.
at Snowfall_fla::MainTimeline/frame1()]]>
Bird's Eye View Snowfall http://flintparticles.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=84&Focus=2086#Comment_2086 2013-11-29T23:28:59+00:00 2017-02-03T19:31:26+00:00 lumenbeing http://flintparticles.org/forum/account.php?u=703 Richard, I'm trying to get this to work using the code posted above and, but I've run into an error. TypeError: Error #1034: Type Coercion failed: cannot convert 3 to Array at ...
TypeError: Error #1034: Type Coercion failed: cannot convert 3 to Array
at Snowfall_fla::MainTimeline/frame1()

I'm on Flash CS5.]]>
Hourglass http://flintparticles.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=607&Focus=2077#Comment_2077 2013-10-08T17:27:25+01:00 2017-02-03T19:31:26+00:00 SlowMoe http://flintparticles.org/forum/account.php?u=699 I am trying to create an hourglass effect. Works ok so far - only that I cannot find a way to have the "sand" pile up as a neat cone on the bottom of the hourglass. All I get is a thin ... Any ideas, anyone?
Thanks
S]]>
a Zone based on a Path http://flintparticles.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=606&Focus=2076#Comment_2076 2013-09-18T13:46:49+01:00 2017-02-03T19:31:26+00:00 chadp http://flintparticles.org/forum/account.php?u=697 I was hoping someone has already written their own PathZone or PathZone3D. If not, it should probably be a new feature. Using something like a polyline or bezier curve and then applying a radius to ...
If I want to attempt this on my own, I believe all I need to do is implement the Zone3D interface, which only has 3 methods:
contains(p:Vector3D):Boolean
getLocation():Vector3D
getVolumn():Number

Does anybody have any suggestions for implementing the polyline/curves? Are there any popular libraries that you recommend to build off of?

I think I could hack in polylines by myself, but by the time I got to curves I think my simple little class will have gotten quite messy.]]>
Drawing a large bitmap and then clearing it in a straight line http://flintparticles.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=605&Focus=2075#Comment_2075 2013-09-15T23:35:37+01:00 2017-02-03T19:31:26+00:00 prophesyofwolf http://flintparticles.org/forum/account.php?u=696 Hey all, I'm making a website and we want our logo to be "written" on the screen by a laser-projection thing, so essentially it is drawn onto the screen by a fan shaped beam of light. I ...
I'm making a website and we want our logo to be "written" on the screen by a laser-projection thing, so essentially it is drawn onto the screen by a fan shaped beam of light. I then want it to either disappear completely or maybe take a few seconds to disappear. How would I go about doing this?]]>
Any pointers on writing an interface to my custom 3d engine? http://flintparticles.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=600&Focus=2059#Comment_2059 2013-09-03T03:36:33+01:00 2017-02-03T19:31:26+00:00 fh9s89 http://flintparticles.org/forum/account.php?u=693 "Can you tell me what fish net is made, Ann?" "A lot of little holes tied together with strings." replied the little ... "A lot of little holes tied together with strings." replied the little girl.
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Kids-Brand-Taurababe-2013-new-winter-autumn-kid-boy-thermal-front-button-cardigan-sweater-turn-down/109717_1215196032.html]]>
BitmapDataZone for 3d space http://flintparticles.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=604&Focus=2058#Comment_2058 2013-08-14T07:46:12+01:00 2017-02-03T19:31:26+00:00 Richard http://flintparticles.org/forum/account.php?u=1 Thanks. I've added the fix to the github repository. BitmapDataZone for 3d space http://flintparticles.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=604&Focus=2057#Comment_2057 2013-08-13T12:13:57+01:00 2017-02-03T19:31:26+00:00 lunacity http://flintparticles.org/forum/account.php?u=692 problem found! The "getLocation" function inside the BitmapDataZone Class was wrong. I'm surprised that no one has noticed that before. I fixed it with this code: public function ... I'm surprised that no one has noticed that before.
I fixed it with this code:

public function getLocation():Vector3D
{
if( _dirty )
{
init();
}

var point:Point = Point( _validPoints.getRandomValue() ).clone();
var d1:Vector3D = _scaledWidth.clone();
d1.scaleBy( point.x );
var d2:Vector3D = _scaledHeight.clone();
d2.scaleBy( point.y );
d1.incrementBy( d2 );
var pos = _corner.clone().add( d1 );
return pos;
}]]>
BitmapDataZone for 3d space http://flintparticles.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=604&Focus=2056#Comment_2056 2013-08-12T14:28:34+01:00 2017-02-03T19:31:26+00:00 lunacity http://flintparticles.org/forum/account.php?u=692 Hello, I tried to use the logo example for a 3d space, but didn't get it to work. I followed the example and changed all parameters for 3d. I guess my problem is with the 3D BitmapDataZone. I ... I tried to use the logo example for a 3d space, but didn't get it to work.
I followed the example and changed all parameters for 3d. I guess my problem is with the 3D BitmapDataZone.
I guess I'm using the parameters the wrong way. Can you help me?

Here is my code. Everything works fine with the BoxZone Initializer, so I think the problem is the BitmapDataZone.

import org.flintparticles.common.actions.*;
import org.flintparticles.common.counters.*;
import org.flintparticles.common.easing.Quadratic;
import org.flintparticles.common.events.EmitterEvent;
import org.flintparticles.common.initializers.*;
import org.flintparticles.common.displayObjects.Rect;
import org.flintparticles.threeD.actions.*;
import org.flintparticles.threeD.initializers.*;
import org.flintparticles.threeD.zones.*;
import org.flintparticles.threeD.emitters.Emitter3D;
import org.flintparticles.threeD.renderers.*;
import org.flintparticles.threeD.renderers.controllers.*;

var logoClip : MovieClip = new Logo();
var logo:BitmapData = new BitmapData(260, 250, true, 0x00FFFFFF);
logo.draw(logoClip);

var emitter:Emitter3D = new Emitter3D();
emitter.counter = new Steady( 30 );
emitter.addInitializer( new SharedImage( new Rect( 10, 10 ) ) );
emitter.addInitializer( new Lifetime( 3 ) );
emitter.addInitializer( new Position( new BitmapDataZone( logo, new Vector3D( 0, 0, 0 ), new Vector3D( 260, 0, 0 ), new Vector3D( 0, 250, 0 ) ) ) );
//emitter.addInitializer( new Position( new BoxZone( 280, 280, 280, new Vector3D( 0, 0, 0 ), new Vector3D( 0, 1, 0 ), new Vector3D( 0, 0, 1 ) ) ) );
emitter.addInitializer( new Velocity( new PointZone( new Vector3D( 0, 0, -200 ) ) ) );

emitter.addAction( new Move( ) );
emitter.addAction( new Age( Quadratic.easeOut ) );
emitter.addAction( new Fade( 1, 0 ) );
emitter.addAction( new LinearDrag( 0.5 ) );
emitter.start( );

var renderer:BitmapRenderer = new BitmapRenderer( new Rectangle( 0, 0, stage.stageWidth, stage.stageHeight ) );
renderer.addFilter( new BlurFilter( 2, 2, 1 ) );
renderer.addFilter( new ColorMatrixFilter( [ 1,0,0,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,0.66,0 ] ) );
renderer.addEmitter( emitter );
renderer.x = 0;
renderer.y = 0;
addChild( renderer );

renderer.camera.position = new Vector3D( 0, 0, -400 );
renderer.camera.target = new Vector3D( 0, 0, 0 );
renderer.camera.projectionDistance = 400;
var camera = new FirstPersonCamera( stage, renderer.camera );
camera.start();]]>
Actions for emitters/renderers http://flintparticles.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=603&Focus=2055#Comment_2055 2013-07-30T11:03:04+01:00 2017-02-03T19:31:26+00:00 kenny_cj http://flintparticles.org/forum/account.php?u=691 Hi there, First of all, I love this particle engine, really flexible, good performance and great base features ! I created a flame effect by extending Emitter2D class. In the current ...
First of all, I love this particle engine, really flexible, good performance and great base features !

I created a flame effect by extending Emitter2D class. In the current architecture, we have Actions that updates the particles of an emitter and Activities that updates the emitter itself.
I would like to know if there is a way to apply a MutualGravity Aciton but on Emitters.
For example we could have Actions that could be attached to a renderer in order to access all emitters in this renderer and add interaction between emitters.]]>
Bubbles http://flintparticles.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=602&Focus=2054#Comment_2054 2013-07-12T09:29:44+01:00 2017-02-03T19:31:26+00:00 jessSMALL http://flintparticles.org/forum/account.php?u=690 Hi there, About to give this a go for the first time. I want to make a bubble machine for kids. So there would be 2 parts. 1) The bit where the bubbles are blown out of the machine in various ...
About to give this a go for the first time. I want to make a bubble machine for kids. So there would be 2 parts. 1) The bit where the bubbles are blown out of the machine in various directions and 2) then they would need to float around naturally (much slower than the first part)

Does anyone have any recommendations on the best method or have any good examples? I'm thinking brownian is closest for the floating but not sure

Thanks!!]]>
"fan" in particle system http://flintparticles.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=601&Focus=2053#Comment_2053 2013-06-13T06:33:57+01:00 2017-02-03T19:31:26+00:00 makac http://flintparticles.org/forum/account.php?u=687 Found it: org.flintparticles.threeD.actions.Jet "fan" in particle system http://flintparticles.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=601&Focus=2052#Comment_2052 2013-06-06T15:20:33+01:00 2017-02-03T19:31:26+00:00 makac http://flintparticles.org/forum/account.php?u=687 Is there an easy way to add the effect of a "fan" to a particle system? For instance, consider that I have a snow fall particle system, and at the bottom a fan pointing upwards, so that ...
Thanks,

Makac]]>
Any pointers on writing an interface to my custom 3d engine? http://flintparticles.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=600&Focus=2051#Comment_2051 2013-05-31T09:11:02+01:00 2017-02-03T19:31:26+00:00 Richard http://flintparticles.org/forum/account.php?u=1 Hi Bob Flint tries to separate different responsibilities. It is quite capable of handling 3d physics and other particle effects within its own code. To integrate with your engine it should just ...
Flint tries to separate different responsibilities. It is quite capable of handling 3d physics and other particle effects within its own code. To integrate with your engine it should just need to know how to render the resulting particles. That means one or more custom renderers, and initializers for setting the object used to display each particle. Hopefully you won't need anything else.

Richard]]>
Any pointers on writing an interface to my custom 3d engine? http://flintparticles.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=600&Focus=2050#Comment_2050 2013-05-30T16:24:57+01:00 2017-02-03T19:31:26+00:00 Bob http://flintparticles.org/forum/account.php?u=682 I have created a high performance next generation voxel engine in Flash 11. I love the flint particle system, and it make much more sense to use it rather then writing my own. It appears for Flint ... I love the flint particle system, and it make much more sense to use it rather then writing my own.
It appears for Flint to work as I desire, I need to write a number of classes to interface my renderer to Flint.

So it appears I need to write acustom
MyRenderer.as

and then add the initializers
MyDisplayObjectClass
MyDisplayerObjectClasses
MyObjectClass
MyObjectClasses
then I see some other engines have different class, I guess I will have to live in system for a while to get a feel for what else I need.

Any pointers before I dive in?
Anyone want to lend a hand?

bob]]>
RectangleZone Particles Only Drawing on Portion of Screen http://flintparticles.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=597&Focus=2047#Comment_2047 2013-05-10T06:26:01+01:00 2017-02-03T19:31:26+00:00 Domingo http://flintparticles.org/forum/account.php?u=684 At the moment, I am attempting to resize a Position on an emitter when the stage itself resizes. I opted for the simpler (I thought) method of just recreating the emitter on resize. My assumption ...
I opted for the simpler (I thought) method of just recreating the emitter on resize. My assumption was, while it was probably expensive it wouldn't happen often.
That seems to have worked; however...

After I resize the window the actual particles aren't being drawn on the entire stage:


If I even resize it back to its original dimensions, it looks fine again:


I'm not sure if its relevent or not, but there are times that about 1 to 3 particles have been drawn outside that small subset. Also, it looks as if the edge of that stars is around the same as the stage height (like its forcing it to be square.)...

Here's the code for the event:

public class Client extends MovieClip {
public var emitter:StarEmitter;
public var cloudEmitter:CloudEmitter;
public var renderer:DisplayObjectRenderer;

public var loginPane:MovieClip;

public var starBg:StarBackground;

public function Client() {
stage.scaleMode = StageScaleMode.NO_SCALE;
stage.align = StageAlign.TOP_LEFT;

emitter = new StarEmitter(stage.stageWidth, stage.stageHeight);
renderer = new DisplayObjectRenderer();
renderer.addEmitter(emitter);

addChild(renderer);
stage.addEventListener(Event.RESIZE, this.onResizeStage);
}

//...

private function onResizeStage(e:Event):void {
renderer.removeEmitter(emitter);

trace("Stage Width: " + stage.stageWidth + ". Stage Height: " + stage.stageHeight + ".");

emitter = new StarEmitter(stage.stageWidth, stage.stageHeight);

renderer.addEmitter(emitter);
}

//...


Here's the StarEmitter code:
public class StarEmitter extends Emitter2D {
private var position:Position;
public static const STARS:Number = 1000;

public function StarEmitter(w:Number, h:Number) {
counter = new Blast(STARS);
addInitializer( new ImageClass( RadialDot, [2] ) );
position = new Position( new RectangleZone(0, 0, w, h));
addInitializer( position );
this.start();
}
}


Here's what the console output said:
Stage Width: 1676. Stage Height: 963. (this was while it was large)
Stage Width: 892. Stage Height: 592. (this was back to small again)
]]>
A possible bug? http://flintparticles.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=591&Focus=2043#Comment_2043 2013-04-30T16:18:45+01:00 2017-02-03T19:31:26+00:00 Richard http://flintparticles.org/forum/account.php?u=1 The colors are 32bit ARGB values - the first FF is the alpha value. So you probably want addInitializer( new ColorInit( 0xFFFF0000, 0xFFFFCC00 ) );
addInitializer( new ColorInit( 0xFFFF0000, 0xFFFFCC00 ) );]]>
Controlling speed of fade of for renderer filters http://flintparticles.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=590&Focus=2042#Comment_2042 2013-04-30T16:17:18+01:00 2017-02-03T19:31:26+00:00 Richard http://flintparticles.org/forum/account.php?u=1 Adjust the color matrix filter - the 0.95 is the fade effect. 0.90, for example, will fade more rapidly. Fixing a position to an intializerGroup http://flintparticles.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=594&Focus=2028#Comment_2028 2013-04-16T03:50:02+01:00 2017-02-03T19:31:26+00:00 slaughterHaus79 http://flintparticles.org/forum/account.php?u=676 HI, I have a few questions in regards to your your Brownian example. Unfortunately I am not a strong AS3 developer and there is a specific effect I need to create for a project and I think your ...
I have a few questions in regards to your your Brownian example. Unfortunately I am not a strong AS3 developer and there is a specific effect I need to create for a project and I think your Brownian example is what I am looking for to accomplish it.

I'm not building it in class files as im not very familiar with them. I'm pretty much putting everything on a time line. Here is what I am looking to do.

I have a button and upon ROLL_OVER I need this brownian effect to alpha in and alpha out on ROLL_OUT.

In the example you have larger white circles bouncing off of the smaller ones. Is there a way to have a single one of those in a fixed position and to make it invisible? or is there a way to make a fixed invisible object that the particles react to?

Or... can I add this particle effect to an empty movieClip to create the ROLL_OVER/OFF effect?

If these questions were already answered in the forum can you point me the direction of their posts?

Sorry for the noob questions and thanks in advance for the help.]]>
DiscZone center point doing chaos (2D) http://flintparticles.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=593&Focus=2018#Comment_2018 2013-04-05T10:40:31+01:00 2017-02-03T19:31:26+00:00 bestam http://flintparticles.org/forum/account.php?u=603 This is the code, the DiscZone is instanciated at the 5th line. This FX is designed to follow a DisplayObject, so the code ends with an addActivity(FollowDisplayObject). All I want is to have a ... This FX is designed to follow a DisplayObject, so the code ends with an addActivity(FollowDisplayObject).
All I want is to have a distance of 50 vertically between this emitter and the object followed.
That's why the Point given to the DiscZone is set to (0,50).
But the result isn't an y offset, the result is the DiscZone having a radius of 50! :(
That sucks badly. Note that I also use an offset for the GravityWell and that one seems to work.
I use this engine for the game Faeria (www.faeria.net), I truly don't regret that I chose Flint as the particle engine, I want to make it shine.
Support highliy appreciated, thanks.

var locRockEmitter:Emitter2D = new Emitter2D();
locRockEmitter.counter = new Steady(20);
display_object_emitters.push(locRockEmitter);

locRockEmitter.addInitializer( new Position( new DiscZone( new Point( 0, 50 ), 20)));
locRockEmitter.addInitializer( new ImageClass( Particle, [Assets.ROCK] ));
locRockEmitter.addInitializer( new Rotation(-Math.PI,Math.PI));
locRockEmitter.addInitializer( new Lifetime(.5) );
locRockEmitter.addInitializer( new ScaleImageInit(.05 , .15) );

locRockEmitter.addAction( new Move() );
locRockEmitter.addAction( new Fade(1,0) );
locRockEmitter.addAction( new GravityWell(300, parCarrier.x, parCarrier.y+100) );
locRockEmitter.addAction( new Age() );

locRockEmitter.addActivity( new FollowDisplayObject(parCarrier, parRenderer) );]]>
A possible bug? http://flintparticles.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=591&Focus=2016#Comment_2016 2013-04-02T17:04:58+01:00 2017-02-03T19:31:26+00:00 jackdracon http://flintparticles.org/forum/account.php?u=670 Does anyone have a advice?Or saw this too? A possible bug? http://flintparticles.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=591&Focus=2015#Comment_2015 2013-04-01T15:23:41+01:00 2017-02-03T19:31:26+00:00 jackdracon http://flintparticles.org/forum/account.php?u=670 Hi, I am starting with Flint, it's nice the way how this works. I picked this as base to make my version: http://flintparticles.org/examples/sparkler The particles works nice, but when I made a ... I am starting with Flint, it's nice the way how this works.
I picked this as base to make my version: http://flintparticles.org/examples/sparkler
The particles works nice, but when I made a simple adjust:
[code]
addInitializer( new ColorInit( 0xFF0000, 0xFFFFCC00 ) );
[/code]
When I just changed the first color as showed above, the particles doesn't works anymore.
Just works when I put the first color as the same of showed in example.
Why this happens? How I can get more colors as I need into this particle?
Thanks.]]>
Controlling speed of fade of for renderer filters http://flintparticles.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=590&Focus=2014#Comment_2014 2013-04-01T06:50:22+01:00 2017-02-03T19:31:26+00:00 principe http://flintparticles.org/forum/account.php?u=669 I'm looking for a way to control the way filters are rendered. For example with the sparkler example, I want to reduce the FPS to 12 FPS, and the fadeout for the particle trails (rendered using the ... sparkler example, I want to reduce the FPS to 12 FPS, and the fadeout for the particle trails (rendered using the blur and color matrix filters) take too long to fade out. Is there anyway to make it fade out faster? Or just simply remove it.

I'm looking for a trail effect similar to golden sun particles]]>
Strange behaviour with FPS http://flintparticles.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=589&Focus=2013#Comment_2013 2013-03-28T21:24:20+00:00 2017-02-03T19:31:26+00:00 Lunar http://flintparticles.org/forum/account.php?u=668 Changed the renderMode from "direct" to "cpu" and now hitting 50-60 fps. Don't think I quite understand the difference between the modes yet... Strange behaviour with FPS http://flintparticles.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=589&Focus=2012#Comment_2012 2013-03-26T19:00:45+00:00 2017-02-03T19:31:26+00:00 Lunar http://flintparticles.org/forum/account.php?u=668 Hi, I'm writing my first mobile app with AIR on Android. I've not moved to a stage3d framework yet because so far I've been getting good fps in all the little activities I've created until now. The ...
Now I've just made the first activity where there are only 6 particle shapes already moving on screen - revolving around in an ellipse. Strangely I'm only getting 20-30 fps and as a result the animation is not smooth. Even stranger, as soon as I touch the screen AND move my finger around the fps goes up to 50-60fps and the animation gets very smooth. I'm not doing anything to the emitter when I touch the screen. Even if I do eg add a gravitywell, I get the same increase in fps.

I really can't figure this one out. Is my app gaining a better access to system resources simply by moving my finger around than if not? I'm hoping someone might be able to help me identify what might be happening behind the scenes...]]>